Uganda: Interview with Florence Nayiga   Sekabira, Minister for Disability and Aging

Q. Were you a Member of Parliament prior to your current position?

A. Yes, I was a Member of Parliament. I got to Parliament in June 1996, and I was appointed Minister of State for Elderly and Disability Affairs in August 1998.

Q. What do you think has been the impact of having yourself and other disabled individuals in higher offices in Uganda? Can you tell us about them and what do you feel has been the effect of having you and these other individuals in these positions?

A. I may not be able to remember all of them who are in higher offices, but first in the political arena, we have five Members of Parliament. Two ladies - besides me, the other one is Margaret, and then the other three are men. At least one of them is deaf, the other woman is visually impaired and then there are three of us with physical [mobility] disabilities. Much of the effect of having us at this level has been awareness raising.

Role models needed for variety of groups

We're acting as role models to many, to the young people with disabilities and other disabled persons and even to the parents who have children with disabilities. We encourage their hopes when they see us in such positions -- they have hope that, one day, their children may take up such positions. It also gives them the knowledge that having a child with a disability is not a curse as it used to be thought of. Instead, that if their child's potential is developed, she can contribute to the family and to the nation at large. So this has been a positive impact.

Influencing decisions at higher levels of government

Secondly, we have been able to influence decisions at high up levels of government. Our sitting in Cabinet helps to ensure that whatever judgment goes through Cabinet is disability sensitive or friendly. The Parliament will look at what Cabinet has provided and if they wish to improve on it, then they do so. So then you have these two levels where you can ensure that whatever comes out of Parliament is disability friendly, disability inclusive. So we have been able to influence whatever policy, laws and so on goes through the government and its programs. For example, in the case of universal primary education, that's a program which has been created to ensure that each and every child below 18 years has the opportunity to go to school. Government meets the tuition fee, the parents have to provide only school fees and money to feed their children and also to buy books. We help to ensure that the policy that establishes that program provides for children who have disabilities. It has resulted that in families where there are children who have disabilities, those children should be given priority because when this program was established to begin with, it was to pertain to four children per family. Those would go to school for free, I mean attend without paying tuition fees. But the federal government decided that every Ugandan child should have education for free, so we had to ensure that children with disabilities were provided for. We insisted that in a family where they have children with disabilities, they should be given priority among the four.

Q. So they are pushed to the front of the line, so to speak?

Impact on public perception of disability

A. Yes. So we have had quite an impact on policies, acts of Parliament and programs of government. Now, the other positive impact I would say is in the public. In our local language, whenever someone saw a disabled person, they would say that person is a "Cata Yamba" meaning someone who is helpless. Now people came to my office and said, "These days we had to add councilor," because many disabled people end up on these local government councils. So the public had to change the language because when they meet a person with a disability they don't know whether they are talking to a councilor or any other person, so they no longer call them "the helpless people" but councilors.

Q. The assumption is now that they are all councilors, where as before the assumption was they were all helpless?

A. Yes. When I was elected to be a Member of Parliament in 1996, all of the technical offices had an education officer, and in the ministry where I work today, that person was addressing some government people and said, "We have to change our language. If you have always called people with disabilities 'helpless people,' how will you be able to continue to make this statement because now this Member of Parliament, she will be entitled to a vehicle, she will find you in the wind and may give you a lift. Now how are you going to tell others about a helpless person giving you a lift?" So that was interesting. So, not only it has created that positive attitude towards people with disabilities, it has also built a hope for people with disabilities, both the young and the adults. We have our leaders in there, they are in decision-making positions.

Though not much has yet been achieved in local government councils, but at least where our representatives of people with disabilities are, and, if they have lobbying and advocacy skills, they've been able to lobby for budgets to ensure that people with disabilities are included in the programs at that level. Because when we make policies at the national level, we need to have people to help us follow up the implementation at the grass roots level. So the idea of having the councilors at the grass root and different local government levels is to be able to demand services, to be able to know the policies provide for what the program is supposed to do for people with disabilities.

Skills training needed

The challenge at present is that many of our councilors [with disabilities] sometimes lack the skills of the other [non-disabled] members of the council. The council has about 15 people, then there are two representatives of people with disabilities. They should be able to work hand in hand with the others on the local council so that when they are advocating for some provision at the local government level, they can be supported because there is also a small cabinet at the local government council. They have policies, but they also seek to draw ties to their local government. So we need to build the capacity of our people with disabilities, especially at the local level, so they can be able to demand budgets, to demand for services and to be able even to communicate to us at the national level on issues they feel are oppressive. Sometimes they do communicate, but sometimes they don't.

Election process in Uganda

Q. When you were elected to Parliament, how did that work? Were you actually put on the ballot by your party? Or did you put yourself on? Tell me a little bit about how that election situation worked.

A. The interesting part of Uganda is that since 1996, we have been under the movement system of government. It was an all-encompassing sort of movement because of the revolution, our divided parties hadn't worked well for many years. When the present President came in, he came with a vision of getting people united and so somehow we didn't continue multi-parties. We have been under one system, embracing the large parties who came in and the constitution provided that for ten years we'd be under the movement system of government. So under that we are all embraced, so there is no party. So we could only elect our own representatives. Disabled people had to be organized to elect their leaders to Parliament.

Q. And did the party go to the disability organizations and ask them to give them a list of people to run for the Parliament, similar to the system used in South Africa by the ANC?

A. Yes, but South Africa also had another party, Liberty.

Q. Yes, but the ANC is the most powerful and they went to the disabled peoples organizations and said, "Give us a list of people who would be viable candidates." And then they put them on the ballot wherever they were from.

Regional approach to 5 disability seats in Parliament

A. No, for us we have five seats in the Parliament and it's up to people with disabilities to decide how we want to get our five members of Parliament. So we decided as people with disabilities that for the five seats, we are going to divide Uganda into four regions and then we shall decide what it will be for each region. Then we also said that one seat should be for women with disabilities, which would be contested for by women with disabilities only. The other four would be contested for by both men and women because we wanted to ensure that in Parliament we had both men and women with disabilities represented. So we organized Electoral Colleges. We get representatives from each district, so each district, when the time comes to elect a new MP, sends four people: one with a visual impairment, one with a physical disability, one with a hearing disability and one with any other disability. At that point, we meet in the capital city, Kampala, then they make an Electoral College, and it is through that we go and campaign. We come up with our manifesto and whoever is interested to serve as a Member of Parliament, he goes to campaign. If the disability people elect you, then you go, if they don't, whether you have support from government or not, then you don't.

Q. The non-disabled members of the Electoral College do not vote for you?

A. No, they are not supposed to.

Q. So only the disabled people are allowed to vote for their representative.

A. Yes. So they elect us to Parliament, and so as the women representative in Parliament, I'm supposed to immediately focus on issues of disabled women. So I work hand in hand with the others, but you know, I'm not limited to that. I have to also focus on national issues, but I should ensure that the issues of women with disabilities are not left out, so that's my immediate focus. But we are not limited to that, in fact one of us is the chairperson of one of the committees in Parliament that handles the economy of the country. So we are free to debate each and every thing like every other item in Parliament, just like any other Member of Parliament, we are not limited.

Working with the Ugandan disability movement

Q. How does that work in terms of legislation that isn't necessarily perceived as a disability issue, but that would impact on people with disabilities? Let's say legislation about education or transportation? Would you automatically be sent white papers on any pending proposals or bills? Would the five Members of Parliament with disabilities be given all that or would you have to ask?

A. I would have to ask for it. Now the disability movement in Uganda is very popular. Each and every other Minister knows that there's an organization, the National Union of Disabled Persons in Uganda, that's NUDPU, but they also know that there are the stakeholders, so, for example, right now the Minister of Transport, Communication and Housing is working on building a control bill in order to come up with laws on construction of buildings. So when they drafted the policy, they had to invite stakeholders, and they know very well that we have an interest in that. So my department was invited, and as a Minister I was invited to consultative meetings, but NUDPU officials, representing the NGO that is the umbrella for people with disabilities, was invited to that meeting and the Minister of Education because she also handles children with disabilities and other stakeholders were invited. So we had to look at the bill, at the draft bill, you know? We looked at it, made our comments, then the responsible ministry had to take it back, address our concerns and then go ahead to work on it, and after that, the bill is going to be presented to Cabinet. But after Cabinet it will come back to Parliament. So when they invite me, they also invite the other MPs to that consultative meeting. But if it comes out that they didn't take care of all the issues rendered at that consultative meeting, then it will be challenged. I mean, the MPs for people with disabilities will have another opportunity to ensure that their real concerns are taken care of.

But disability awareness in Uganda, it really even impresses me. When it's time to debate disability in Parliament, I mean there's no "who has a disability and who doesn't have it." The MPs themselves now "get it" because in their constituencies disabled people have come to them, because they don't wait for us only, they also go to the other Members of Parliament, because they vote for them, too. That's the advantage we have. We vote for our own Members of Parliament for people with disabilities, but we also vote for those other MPs in the communities where we live, so we have the right to go to them and say, "Please ensure that government does this and that."

Disability support at highest level

As a Minister responsible for disabilities issues, I'm interested in the level of awareness in the top leadership of the country. When the President met the leaders of people with disabilities, he said, "I have a sister who has a disability, but my father wanted to keep her at home so she could take care of the calves." The father was worried that the daughter could fall on the way because the schools used to be far, unlike today because many schools have now been constructed. So their father was so worried about his daughter that he wanted her to stay at home, take care of the calves, you know? But the mother was strong, and the mother said no. She stood her ground and said, "My daughter should go to school." The mother insisted that the girl had to go to school, now, she has a Masters degree. So the President is also very close to disability issues, and he knows that in Parliament disabled people are crucial.

Inter-ministerial cooperation

Q. Talk a little bit about your position now. How long have you been the Minister of State?

A. Since August 1998.

Q. And tell us a little bit about that position. How do you work with the other Ministries and also the disabled peoples' organizations?

A. We have a big ministry called the Ministry of Gender, Labor and Social Development. Now in that ministry, there are different departments that are manned by Ministers of State. So that ministry has five Ministers of State and another Minister, called a Senior Minister. Within that big Ministry, we have a department which takes care of all persons with disabilities, that's the one I'm in charge of. Then there's another bigger one, another bigger department for children and youth. There's a Minister of State responsible for that. Then there's another Minister responsible for labor and industrial relations; and another responsible for culture and gender affairs. So those are different big departments within that ministry.

Q. And you're all called Ministers? Each department head is called a Minister?

A. Yes, a Minister of State. So within that ministry, we collaborate a great deal because we are all under one umbrella. So I know what's taking place with the children: they share with me information about what is going on, and I also share with them. We send information to each other so that we can at least know something that is happening with the other departments. Now, when it comes to other ministries, like the Ministry of Agriculture, Education and so on, mine is almost like an advocacy ministry, because I have the lead role of initiating policy on disability -- if there is a need for a law, I have to initiate it. I advise government on disability issues and the concerns of people with disabilities. I manage a program and supervise by going to the local levels to see what is happening, and most especially in the areas of disability and the older persons' affairs. Now if, during my field visits, I find a program in some area, for example, if I find that the local governments are leaving disabled people out of government programs, I come back to my office and communicate to the minister responsible. I say, "In such and such a district, your department there does not provide for people with disabilities in this area." In other words, I found such and such a problem, so you have to see about it as a ministry. Many times they go ahead and act and then they report to me. Or otherwise, they might write to me and say, "Ok, give us more information," or something like that. And if they're coming up with anything policy or law or anything, we share with each other. All the ministries must get a copy, make their comments, then they send it back to the right ministry responsible for that particular program, policy or law. So that's how we work, but we also have Cabinet meetings. When you are presenting such papers, typically you are there in person, or if I'm not able to be there, then there is a Senior Minister there, because she works very closely with all of the specialized departments, so we have to brief her from time to time.

Reporting channels and budgets

Q. You report directly to the Senior Minister of your ministry and then she reports to the President, is that the reporting structure?

A. No, she reports directly to the Prime Minister and the Prime Minister reports to the President. We also have the full Cabinet meetings and they are chaired by the Vice President for the President. So they are supposed to be chaired by the President himself, but in his absence the Vice President chairs them. So in Cabinet we have an opportunity to report.

Q. And do each of you have your own budget? Or do you go to your Senior Minister when you need money, or how does that work?

A. In the budget, we are looked at as one ministry, so that there are budget lines for the different programs that we run.

Q. Do you know what your operating budget is for your programs when you start your fiscal year -- approximately how much money you will have that year to run your programs?

A. Yes, but sometimes there are budget cuts. Also during the year, you can run out of funds because there wasn't enough revenue collected, so you aren't able to access the whole amount that you asked for. So that will also happen.

Q. And I assume that the money comes from general revenues from taxation?

A. Yes, and even some donations from partners in development. But, it has to be budgeted for by Minister of Finance that does the finances for all the different government ministries. We also get monthly releases. That's why I'm saying that sometimes for some months, you may go and they say, "We didn't get enough revenue so you aren't getting what you budgeted for." So this affects the programs.

Programs for elderly persons?

Q. Since you said you have the elderly and the disabled in you ministry, what's the breakdown percentage wise in terms of your budget? How much of your total budget is devoted to programs for the elderly, how much for the disabled since Uganda is probably predominately a young country, isn't it? Do you have a lot of elderly people?

A. Yes, we do. According to the population in the Census of 2002, 6% of our population is elderly, 60 and above. But the funny thing is up until today, we have a minimal budget for the older persons. What happens is that the program of the people with disabilities has had some support from partners in development, or the donor community. But as for the older persons, I haven't succeeded to get that yet. I've communicated to different organizations, but it seems that they still feel that the African extended family can still take care of the older persons, which is not the truth. I mean, it's not the reality. Because the young people are not in the rural areas where they used to be to take care of their parents. Some of them have gone to other places to look for employment. Secondly, because of HIV/AIDS, the young people have died and left the older people with orphans in the rural areas. So the older persons, instead of expecting support from their children, sons and daughters, now have the responsibility of caring for their grandchildren in the rural areas. But I haven't been able to get people who are willing to support government in that area. And the government's budget hasn't been forthcoming.

Impact of HIV/AIDS

Q. How big a problem is HIV/AIDS in Uganda?

A. According to what they say, the statistics are that the level of infection has gone down because of the campaign. The President has been so open about it, and whenever he addresses any gathering, he reminds the population about HIV/AIDS. And there is a program for the youth and the children to get out the awareness raising. But of course the damage had also been caused earlier on from the 90's when AIDS came in the country. So, I mean, it has been derailed now, but it is a big problem because you go, we have many orphans in the country. It was one of the highest [of the African countries] - a lot of work has been done to reduce the problem. The rate of infection has really gone down, but what about those who had been infected before the campaign had begun, they often died.

Q. How long has the campaign been going on?

A. Since the President came to power which was in '86.

Q. So he was warning people early on?

 printer-friendly format