table of contents - home page - text-only home page Interview with Alison Walsh, Disability Advisor for Channel 4 Television, Britain By Simon Minty (simonminty@compuserve.com) Alison has been working for Channel 4 Television for nearly five years as their Disability Advisor. She is in a unique position as her work encompasses all areas of employment of disabled people in Channel 4 so she can have an effect on disabled people both on the screens and behind the camera. She works for a UK broadcaster that is seen by many as natural home for under-represented groups and minority interest programming. At times, for this reason alone she is equally cursed and blessed when disabled people wanting to get involved in the media migrate there with high aspirations and expecting a warm if not unrealistic welcome. Because of their remit Channel 4 can be held wholly and unfairly responsible for all innovative disability programming. The problem is, Channel 4 controllers have their own agenda, as has any broadcaster in a demanding, rapidly changing and competitive industry. This agenda may conflict or compromise what disabled people and Alison may want to happen in disability programming. I interviewed Alison in early October 2000 at the Channel 4 offices, shortly after she has been taken on full time by the station. Exhibiting a practical understanding of the work load demands and with one eye on the Employment requirements of the Disability Discrimination Act 1995, Channel 4 have agreed to Alison spending two or three days at the office and the remainder of the week working from home with the aid of a laptop and telephone line. I asked her a series of questions concerning her practical day-to-day work, her triumphs and tragedies and how she views the complexities of working in the media with the specific focus on disability. Interview SM How did you hear about the job? AW From advertisements in The Guardian and in Disability Now early in 1996. Co-incidentally, the Disability Now edition, which ran the ad, also had an article on understanding the Social Model of Disability, which was one of the questions I was asked during the interview. SM What are three main skills you need to have to do your job? AW Resilience and an ability to think long term. You lose a lot of battles so you have to be able to take the rough with the smooth. Flexibility; open to argument and a willingness to listen when trying to satisfy the many different factions and constituencies being all people with an interest in the programmes such as Channel 4 and disabled people. A passion for disability and television - it is not enough being passionate about one or the other. And, a good sense of humour as otherwise you tend to lose it! SM Do you think you have to be disabled to do the job? AW Yes. Although I am considered not disabled enough for some! I have what is known as a hidden disability (rheumatoid arthritis) and I acquired it later in life. Visible disability necessary? SM This may disadvantage you in not having personal knowledge of growing up understanding how troublesome inaccurate or under representation of yourself can be. It may also give the impression that Channel 4 has taken someone on who they consider to have a non-severe disability and that you are more malleable. Theoretically at least, you can hide your impairment? AW It might be that I don't look particularly disabled, unless I am limping, but it is only a specific quarter that has a problem with this. You can only have a certain number of impairments in one person. I believe that doing this job you have to represent a vast array of different people with different impairments and therefore there will always have an element of dissatisfaction in the choice of person. Some might say we need a specific representative voice of learning disabled people, of the visually impaired community and so on. We are actually taking on a deaf advisor as a result of such pressure and realising there is probably a case for this identifying separate culture and the need for a native sign language speaker. SM This could be argued to the point that you have an advisor for every impairment group and when all 25 of them meet, no one agrees on anything and nothing gets done. AW Yes, quite, programmes by committee. I do share common [disabled] experiences such as employment discrimination and feelings of difference, of being under represented and not knowing other people who have the impairment and the resulting feelings of isolation. If you have some of those, you can understand others you may not have experienced - it gives you an edge and the ability to empathise. SM Thinking about your predecessor, she had a physical and visible impairment. It shouldn't be that Channel 4 has to have someone with a visible disability every time? They should have the disabled person who is the best for the job. What do you see as the key purpose or aim of your job? Key purpose of job AW To increase employment of disabled people in programme making, on screen, in programme support and other areas at Channel 4, by encouraging and assisting all parties in the process. I am currently spending my time in getting more disabled people employed and getting more representation of disabled people, whether or not it is considered positive or negative. This can be more productive rather than fine tuning and getting 'better' representation in some people's eyes which will however still get criticism. For every person that cries foul, there will be others who say they loved it! It is very difficult. SM What is the advantage to Channel 4 of having someone like you working in your role? AW I act as a conduit for new talent, new ideas in disability programming, new ways of including disability in mainstream programming; disability is an important element of Channel 4's output but sometimes - with all the competition for slots and programme funds, the demands from different pressure groups, viewers and industry regulators - there isn't sufficient priority given or time devoted to editorial thinking, so it's good to have someone who lives and breathes disability rather than has to see it as just part of their commissioning duties. Gatekeeper role? SM You have mentioned being a conduit for talent, does that mean you can also become a gatekeeper effectively? This could be a positive and negative thing dependent on your viewpoint? AW I try not to be. In fact it is impossible for me to be as if someone wants to work in any area of the channel, they don't have to go through me. They can approach commissioning editors directly and commissioning editors are very capable of making their own decision about talent. However, there is a danger as in the early days of the unrefined FOUR ALL database (a database of talented disabled people for programme makers to search as a resource) when someone calls me up looking for a presenter, producer or whatever, I pull up the details and start reading them and the caller jumps on the first few and they'll hang up when I haven't given them the rest of the list. Anyway, the trouble is with personal recommendations is the subjective view. Everyone has such different tastes and I can misjudge talent sometimes but I don't see anything wrong in being upfront about the talent that you like or talking to people and suggesting different commissioning editors they should approach who might like them better. Kind of matching people up. But it is still up to individuals to knock on doors and push themselves and where I come in is to chase things up and keep reminding editors to see people. SM I suppose if you are trying to revolutionise television in terms of how they see and deal with disability that is a huge task in itself. To then go and change how it currently operates in terms of personal recommendations, nepotism and referrals and it not being a pure meritocracy is a bigger a task? AW Absolutely. That is how it often works in the rest of the industry. SM How much do you think of your job as a challenge - how tough a nut is it to crack inside C4? AW It will be less tough now that I am full time at Channel 4 - it was hard to make an impact on all programme areas on just a couple of days a week. But most commissioning editors are great to work with, keen to help - they're just snowed under and they are under a lot of pressure to make progress on multicultural diversity, I think they tend to make disability the second phase of the great diversity battle. Impact of Disability Discrimination Act? SM Has the UK Disability Discrimination Act 1995 impacted on the work you do? AW Not much. In fact at a recent Government conference hosted by the Department for Culture Media and Sport I asked the newly formed Disability Rights Commission what how we were supposed to apply pressure on broadcasters and producers to improve the employment of disabled people as the DDA is not the right tool. I have found I can't invoke the law in most cases; we only make one programme ('Right to Reply'), it doesn't apply to studios being accessible and most production companies have under-fifteen staff so the employment provisions don't apply . On an individual basis, if when making a programme there is a specific access problem I am very happy to wade in and make a big noise. But if it is a treatment issue and I understand that people can get irate and may get treated badly by a researcher, it happens all the time, I am always prepared to listen to people about this. But because this form of abuse happens across the industry irrespective of disability I can't always do something about it but I'd much rather people complained or criticised than muttered things behind my back. I stick my neck out to do things that I think are right and if people don't agree then I am happy to talk to them. I will often defend or explain the reasoning behind decisions but equally true is that some of the criticisms make valid points and so I'll discuss them with the relevant commissioning editor and see if something can be done. It is always worth arguing and to engage people. SM Do you feel supported by C4? AW Definitely - it's a good working environment, friendly and relaxed; they've agreed to most of my demands e.g. money for database, television skills course, money for deaf training on the new deaf series, more time for me; they encourage me in ventures like 'Do you think I'm sexy?' session at the Television Festival in Edinburgh; they make sure I can work from home via the laptop by adapting to my access needs and I can always get advice. It might sound a bit creepy but it is true and I can hardly fault them on how they've supported me. External supports SM What external sources support you? AW Disabled people - from all walks of life and all parts of the disability politics spectrum; some people I am in touch with regularly who know me well and will talk honestly about programmes, offer constructive criticism and give me ideas, story leads and useful contacts. Also others, who email me out of the blue, have heard about the database or ring Viewers' Enquiries and get passed on to me or write with their views on programming. There are also other Producers like Sally Woodward and Kudos or Jenny Duff at Domain or Jane Stevenson who have been incredibly supportive, giving up time and making huge efforts to help with projects. On a smaller scale, every producer who gets enthused by what I am doing support me. For me, the BDN has been more focused on HR where I would like to see more input from production and commissioning, which is more of what I do at ground level. However, with the Edinburgh Session it worked well because we all worked together and pulled in the same direction. Even your biggest critic who jumps on everything that goes wrong can be supportive when they write and acknowledge those things that go well. People are very quick to fire off a complaint but not so quick to say well done. SM What have you achieved? What is your greatest success to date? AW I'd say my job is mainly about small successes. Seeing someone I put in touch with a Commissioning Editor or producer get a job as a researcher, director, a part in a drama, seeing a pet project such as Freak Out (2000) or Travelog (1998) reach the screen. Perhaps the bigger projects I am most proud of are the FOUR ALL TV Skills Training Course, the FOUR ALL Database and the Edinburgh Television Festival sessions. Achievements to come SM What do you still wish to achieve? AW Lots of things. Disabled newsreader on Channel 4 News, disabled characters in more of our dramas and soaps, a disability series that sits comfortably in the mainstream schedule yet offers scope for experiment and innovation plus opportunities for new talent and a springboard for them to get in to programmes in other areas. I could go on and on. Biggest disappointment SM What has been your biggest disappointment? AW That we don't always follow through with things e.g. Travelog didn't result in more opportunities for disabled travel presenters; House Gang (Australian sitcom with learning disabled actors) had no follow up British produced comedy drama, Freak Out isn't certain to be re-commissioned - sometimes I think disability is doomed to be a string of brave experiments. OK, I believe in innovation and experiment and breaking new ground, we must do that in disability because that is what our role is as a channel. But I also believe it is very important to build on a good idea, to develop a successful brand, a series that will become established, gain a following, provides a vehicle for new talent both on screen and off and make an impact on the schedules. At the end of a series we may say of a brand new presenter "Didn't they do well considering they had never done anything like that?" But we then say goodbye and don't give them a chance to develop and be nurtured. We are often too hard on our disability shows - there are so few they are often over scrutinised and not given the chance to develop in the way other programmes are. We need to have the courage of our convictions and if something didn't quite work, give it another go, not give up and be fearful of repercussions. SM It sounds as if there is constantly shifting sands as the base; lots of new ideas and experiments, which then disappear. You can never say, this is our flagship regular programme, let's build from that and try out other things. AW Exactly, but the series doesn't have to be set in stone. You can have specials, say a one-hour doc in the middle and call it a Freak Out special on a dedicated subject. SM Do you think there is 'disability' competition within the media industry? AW I think there is too much secrecy sometimes, not enough of sharing ideas and learning from each other's experiences. But I don't think broadcasters are (yet) fighting over the disabled talent - more's the pity. SM Do you think C4 recognise the business or creative benefits to incorporating more disability? AW Creative benefits yes, they are always keen to find and bring on new talent and I think the people I have worked with and brought in to contact with disabled people do recognise that their programmes will benefit from making their production teams and on screen presence more diverse. I haven't seen hard statistical evidence to prove that there are business benefits to Channel 4. Rights issue or moral obligation? SM Do you think C4 see disability as a rights issue, an obligation or a morally worthwhile aspect of their programming? AW None of these. I think they see it as an essential part of a channel that strives to give airtime to a wide range of voices. SM What is the biggest hurdle for you to get more disabled people on television? AW Not enough hours in the day! There's a lack of training opportunities and a lack of real commitment from ALL broadcasters to attract more disabled youngsters to the industry and nurture those talented people who have got some way but need help/advice/lucky breaks to gain more experience. More risks need to be taken as are more risks taken with non-disabled budding talent. Disabled people must be allowed to fail and for us not to get our knickers in a twist about it. table of contents - home page - text-only home page